religion and christianity in particular in progressive politics around helping the poor or preserving the environment. the entire movement emerging that is challenging the irs, that is defying the ban on political endorsement is a conservative movement. >> those behind the campaign are already daring the irs on to sue them. here's what the laws ths, a tax-exempt religious organization is a legal entity that did not participate in or sbemp in any political campaign on behalf of any candidate for public office. so has any church or any one faced a penalty as a result? >> there are very occasional penalties. really it seems like a handful every year, but there's not a wide number by any stretch. what you say is exactly right. this is an attempt by a conservative networks of pastors and lawyers to really challenge this law. the law dates back to 1954. it's been on the books now for over 60 years, and what they want to do is to get a church penalized so they can challenge the law and take this to court and attempt to get this ban overturned. we'll see if it works. >> so i guess is the interpretation as to